EVENT REGISTRATION
Saint John’s 2025 Symposium On Aging
Peril & Promise: Aging on the Edge of Change
Saint John’s Resident Registration Opens January 13, 2025
FOR CONCURRENT SESSIONS – 2A, 2B, 5A, and 5B – CHOOSE ONLY ONE SESSION IN EACH GROUP.
Details | Price | Qty |
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THURSDAY FORETHOUGHT — March 13, 8:45 - 9:45am — Facilitator: REV. SETH RAYMOND, Rector, St. Paul’s Episcopal Church | $0.00 USD | Goes On Sale January 13, 2025 |
SESSION 1 — March 13th, 10:00 - 11:45am — OF PERILS AND POSSIBILITIES — Speaker: ANNE BASTING, Ph,D. (CEH: 1.5H) | $0.00 USD | Goes On Sale January 13, 2025 |
THURSDAY LUNCH | $0.00 USD | Goes On Sale January 13, 2025 |
SESSION 2A — March 13th, 1:15 - 2:45pm — POOR, SICK AND IN PRISON — Speaker: LAWRENCE BARTLEY (CEH: 1.5H) | $0.00 USD | Goes On Sale January 13, 2025 |
SESSION 2B — March 13th, 1:15 - 2:45pm — PAIN AND BEAUTY: AGING AS CREATIVE PROCESS — Speaker: DAVID SOUTHWARD, Ph.D. (CEH: 1.5H) | $0.00 USD | Goes On Sale January 13, 2025 |
SESSION 3 — March 13th, 3:15 - 4:45pm — PUTTING THE SPOTLIGHT ON ELDER ABUSE - A CRIME TOO OFTEN COMMITTED IN THE SHADOWS — Speaker: PAUL GREENWOOD, J.D. (CEH: 1.5H) | $0.00 USD | Goes On Sale January 13, 2025 |
FRIDAY FORETHOUGHT — — March 14, 8:45 - 9:45am — Facilitator: REV. SETH RAYMOND, Rector, St. Paul’s Episcopal Church | $0.00 USD | Goes On Sale January 13, 2025 |
SESSION 4 — March 14th, 10:00 - 11:45pm — BOOST YOUR BRAIN HEALTH: LESSONS FROM THE SUPER AGING RESEARCH INITIATIVE — Speaker: EMILY ROGALSKI, Ph.D. (CEH: 1.5H) | $0.00 USD | Goes On Sale January 13, 2025 |
FRIDAY LUNCH | $0.00 USD | Goes On Sale January 13, 2025 |
SESSION 5A — March 14th, 1:15 - 2:45pm — CHALLENGING INTERNALIZED AGEISM TO TELL OUR STORY OF AGING IN A NEW WAY — Speaker: ANDREW STEWARD, Ph.D., LCSW (CEH: 1.5H) | $0.00 USD | Goes On Sale January 13, 2025 |
SESSION 5B — March 14th, 1:15 - 2:45pm — LOCATING OLD AGE — Speaker: PHILLIP STAFFORD, Ph.D. (CEH: 1.5H) | $0.00 USD | Goes On Sale January 13, 2025 |
SESSION 6 — March 14th, 3:15 - 4:45pm — LEARNING TO DISAGREE: BOLD PERSPECTIVES IN A WORLD OF CHANGE — Speaker: JOHN INAZU, Ph.D. (CEH: 1.5H) | $0.00 USD | Goes On Sale January 13, 2025 |
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THURSDAY FORETHOUGHT — March 13, 8:45 - 9:45am — Facilitator: REV. SETH RAYMOND, Rector, St. Paul’s Episcopal Church
March 13, 2025
8:45 am - 9:45 am Seth comes to St. Paul’s from a dual ministry as director of the Hospitality Center and Rector of St. Luke’s Episcopal Church in Racine. He also served previously as Assistant Rector at Christ Church Whitefish Bay. Seth’s journey has been varied, including work with adults with intellectual and developmental disabilities, teenage girls with behavioral disorders, and as an Episcopal missionary in Taiwan. A lifelong learner, Seth earned degrees in Sociology, Music Education, Theology, and Nonprofit Management. His broad experiences living and working with those who are the most vulnerable deeply inform his commitment to sharing the Gospel of Jesus Christ, who is God with Us. Seth is married to Lara and together they enjoy parenting four children. Forethought offers a reflective foundation for each day's encounter with perhaps new and challenging ideas . This ‘listening to', ‘feeding upon’ and ‘resting in’ thoughtful shared time is an ancient sacred practice which can lead from the hearing of a few words to a deeper understanding of the themes of the day to follow. As a new day begins --
Open hearts, minds and spirits to ideas time-honored and new as the changing times. Draw from poetry, well-remembered words and well-springs of inner wisdom. Take time to look ahead.
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SESSION 1 — March 13th, 10:00 - 11:45am — OF PERILS AND POSSIBILITIES — Speaker: ANNE BASTING, Ph,D. (CEH: 1.5H)
March 13, 2025
10:00 am - 11:45 am Anne Basting is a writer, artist and advocate for the power of creativity to transform our lives. She is Emerita Professor of English at the University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee and Founder of the award-winning non-profit TimeSlips.org, which guides, inspires and supports care systems to infuse creativity and meaning-making into care. Her writing and public performances have helped shape an international movement to extend creative and meaningful expression from childhood, where it is celebrated, through to late life, where it has been too long withheld. Her books include Creative Care: A Revolutionary Approach to Elder and Dementia Care (Harper), Penelope: An Arts-based Odyssey to Transform Eldercare (University of Iowa) and Forget Memory: Creating Better Lives for People with Dementia (Johns Hopkins). Internationally recognized for her speaking and her innovative work, Basting is the recipient of a MacArthur “Genius” Fellowship, and numerous major awards and grants. She has trained/consulted with Meals on Wheels, libraries, home care companies, senior centers, memory cafes, museums, adult day programs and every level of long-term care. Basting works now on multiple projects to extend the memory café infrastructure across the United States. We cannot airbrush the threats facing older America at Quarter-century. 10,000 Americans turn 65 every day. For the first time in American history, "the old old" - those over 85 - are now the fastest growing segment of the U.S. population. Medical advances have enabled an unprecedented number of Americans to live longer, healthier lives. But, for millions of older Americans, living longer can also mean physical and cognitive challenges, loneliness, financial instability, and social disorientation in communities shredded by discord. Our communities are still largely unprepared for the changing population, but with imagination, we can shape a shared vision for shifts that can significantly improve the experience of late life. Old and young, together we are called to join in a reconsideration of core questions about how we age. Basting wrestles with some of the key challenges in being older in the United States, while inviting us to imagine opportunities to enhance the journey of aging, both personally and systemically. From transportation to technology, from education to health and social care systems. How might we reimagine systems that seem intractable? What does leadership look like in one's 80s? 90s? 100s? How can a sense of purpose transform daily life? How might cross- generational and cross-ability friendships sharpen the minds and reshape experiences of aging adults? What will it take to shape a future of promise, surprise and curiosity for older adults? Learning Objectives At the conclusion of this session, participants will be able to:- Examine challenges facing many older Americans in the 21st Century.
- Understand both medical and social dimensions of population growth among older adults.
- Explore core issues communities must address as the older population grows.
- Describe a practical vision for paradigm shifts that promise improvements in the lived experience of older adults.
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THURSDAY LUNCH
March 13, 2025
12:00 pm - 1:00 pm
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SESSION 2A — March 13th, 1:15 - 2:45pm — POOR, SICK AND IN PRISON — Speaker: LAWRENCE BARTLEY (CEH: 1.5H)
March 13, 2025
1:15 pm - 2:45 pm He was in prison for 27 years. Now he runs a magazine to give people behind bars 'hope.' “I know what they care about,” Lawrence Bartley says of older people at facilities across the U.S. and in Canada. Lawrence has served as founder and director of News Inside, the print publication of The Marshall Project, which is distributed in hundreds of prisons and jails throughout the United States. News Inside received the 2020 Izzy Award for outstanding achievement in independent media publications intended specifically for incarcerated audiences. The Marshall Project is a nonprofit news organization that seeks to create and sustain a sense of national urgency about inequities within the U.S. criminal justice system. Bartley is also the host and executive producer of "Inside Story," a new video series delivering trustworthy reporting to incarcerated people and the broader public. Bartley was a member of the team behind “The Zo,” winner of the 2021 Edward R. Murrow Award for Excellence and Innovation and recipient of an Emmy nod in the area of News & Documentary. He is also an accomplished public speaker and has provided multimedia content for CNN, PBS, NBC Nightly News, MSNBC and more. Is Death-by-Incarceration the "new normal" for aging prisoners? There is bipartisan agreement that the criminal justice system needs reform. Reports nationwide have shown that it perpetuates racial and economic inequities, costs taxpayers billions of dollars a year and is toxic to those it incarcerates. Police, courts and prisons are repositories of the very crises they are expected but ill-equipped to handle, including mental illness, addiction and poverty, as well as aging itself. Further the nation's prisons are facing staffing shortages. Thousands of older people occupy bed space in maximum security prisons, although the recidivism rate for people older than 65 is close to zero. After decades of mandatory sentencing laws and reductions in parole, the number of aging inmates in our prisons has increased dramatically with no model for sustained geriatric care. The scope and severity of the problem is unprecedented, but some see it as a watershed in the treatment of older people in prison. This session reveals what this means for incarcerated people, their families and the corrections staff tasked with making prisons run. Learning Objectives At the conclusion of this session, participants will be able to:- Summarize the aging prison crisis nationwide.
- Identify the consequences of health inequity and neglect, high costs and staffing shortages for the increasing aging incarcerated population.
- Assess the causes of the increase of the aging adult prison population.
- Explore a range of proposed solutions to the surge in the older adult census in prison in the United States.
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SESSION 2B — March 13th, 1:15 - 2:45pm — PAIN AND BEAUTY: AGING AS CREATIVE PROCESS — Speaker: DAVID SOUTHWARD, Ph.D. (CEH: 1.5H)
March 13, 2025
1:15 pm - 2:45 pm David Southward earned degrees in English from Northwestern and Yale Universities. In 1998, he joined the Honors College at the University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, where he is currently Associate Teaching Professor. Through introductory courses in graphic novels and film, as well as advanced courses in poetry and aesthetics, David shares his passion for the arts in all their variety. His first chapbook, Apocrypha, was published by Wipf & Stock in 2018, and his collection Bachelor's Buttons appeared from Kelsay Books in 2020. Other poems have appeared recently in THINK, Gyroscope Review, Measure, Light, Bramble, Millwork and Verse-Virtual. David is a two-time winner of the Lorine Niedecker Prize from the Council for Wisconsin Writers (2016, 2019) and the Muse Prize from the Wisconsin Fellowship of Poets (2017; selected by Mark Doty). In 2019, his poem "Mary's Visit" was chosen from 978 entries for the $1,000 Frost Farm Prize for Metrical Poetry. This presentation explores the challenges of aging in two films about artists: Paolo Sorrentino’s The Great Beauty (2014) and Pedro Almodóvar’s Pain and Glory (2019). Each of their respective protagonists suffers a late-life creative block that hinders his progress in love, art and self-acceptance. A close look at the climactic scene of each film, in which the protagonists confront (and make peace with?) a pain that plagues them, will spark discussion of how art and beauty serve human development and help one to accept the suffering that comes with age. Behind the glamorous backdrop and saccharine settings of Hollywood lies a narcissistic notion of ageing. This is not to imply that contemporary mainstream movies never attempt to portray old age with candor and delight, but rather that such representations are often lacking in substance, depth and complex interrogation of what it means to grow old within (Western-influenced) cultures that seem to advocate a never-ending pursuit of agelessness. A handful of films (without intending to disregard any others that may be concerned with the same gerontological discourse) serve to challenge this ageist, mainstream monologue within a conversation that requires more critical thought. Learning Objectives: At the conclusion of this session, participants will be able to:- Perceive and interpret thematic parallels between films and in shared experience.
- Explore the relationship between suffering and beauty in the experience of aging individuals.
- Compare/critique images of old age and its characteristics in films with empathy and depth.
- Reflect on one’s own and others’ aesthetic experience of human development.
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SESSION 3 — March 13th, 3:15 - 4:45pm — PUTTING THE SPOTLIGHT ON ELDER ABUSE - A CRIME TOO OFTEN COMMITTED IN THE SHADOWS — Speaker: PAUL GREENWOOD, J.D. (CEH: 1.5H)
March 13, 2025
3:15 pm - 4:45 pm A graduate of Leeds University in the UK, Paul Greenwood spent two years in a small village in Kenya as a volunteer teacher where he learned about respect for elders. He worked as a solicitor for the next 12 years helping clients deal with various setbacks and adversity. In 1991, Greenwood relocated to San Diego where he passed the California Bar and in 1993 joined the San Diego District Attorney’s office as a deputy district attorney. In January 1996, Greenwood was asked to form a new unit focusing on obtaining justice for older victims and for victims with mental or physical disabilities. As head of the unit, he was involved in the review and prosecution of literally hundreds of criminal cases that included homicides, sexual assaults, serious physical assaults, caregiver neglect, false imprisonments, abductions, emotional abuse and financial exploitation. In 2018, Greenwood retired and begin a second career as a trainer and consultant. He opened his own law firm in 2021. Research shows that at least one in 10 older adults experience some form of maltreatment each year — and this is likely an undercount, because only one in 14 cases is reported. People who experience abuse have higher rates of depression, hospitalization and institutionalization — and they are more likely to die prematurely. They also may experience deteriorated family relationships, diminished autonomy and institutionalization as the direct result of maltreatment. This session will emphasize the fact that the escalating tide of such crimes has to be met by a coordinated effort from the whole community. He will demonstrate how education, prevention, investigation and prosecution can work to send a powerful message to potential predators of such abuse. He will provide case examples to show the importance of a multi-disciplinary team approach involving local, county, state and federal partners, various misconceptions that often hinder the successful investigation and prosecution of such crimes and practical suggestions on how to reduce the risk of becoming a victim of various types of fraud as well as the ways that fraudsters are using artificial intelligence to induce victims to part with their life savings. Learning Objectives At the conclusion of this session, participants will be able to:- Appreciate the prevalence and impact of elder abuse among older adults.
- Understand the importance of a multi-disciplinary approach to countering abuse.
- Mount a counter-offensive to misconceptions which often hinder investigation and prosecution of offenses.
- Use practical strategies to reduce the risk of becoming a victim of various types of fraud.
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FRIDAY FORETHOUGHT — March 14, 8:45 - 9:45am — Facilitator: REV. SETH RAYMOND, Rector, St. Paul’s Episcopal Church
March 14, 2025
8:45 am - 9:45 am Forethought offers a reflective foundation for each day's encounter with perhaps new and challenging ideas . This ‘listening to', ‘feeding upon’ and ‘resting in’ thoughtful shared time is an ancient sacred practice which can lead from the hearing of a few words to a deeper understanding of the themes of the day to follow. With another new day, remember --
Where there is the possibility for change, there is hope, backward and forward, transfiguring the past, imagining the new. Take even shared silence, seek only to reach the clarity of common sense.
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SESSION 4 — March 14th, 10:00 - 11:45am — BOOST YOUR BRAIN HEALTH: LESSONS FROM THE SUPER AGING RESEARCH INITIATIVE — Speaker: EMILY ROGALSKI, Ph.D. (CEH: 1.5H)
March 14, 2025
10:00 am - 11:45 am Emily Rogalski is a clinical and cognitive neuroscientist researching aging, Alzheimer’s and related dementias. Her investigations use a multimodal approach focused on two aging perspectives: primary progressive aphasia (PPA), in which neurodegenerative disease invades the language network, and SuperAging, in which 80+-year-olds are resistant to memory decline associated with typical cognitive aging. Rogalski’s PPA research helped to characterize its clinical and anatomical features, drivers of disease progression, identification of risk factors and refinement of cognitive neuroscience of language. She leads a global randomized controlled trial testing the efficacy of Communication Bridge, a novel nonpharmacologic intervention delivered by expert clinicians via telemedicine for individuals with PPA and their communication partners. Rogalski operationalized the SuperAging phenotype, and helped establish its unique biologic, molecular, genetic and psychosocial features. She leads the international SuperAging Research Initiative, which holds promise for identifying protective factors for avoiding Alzheimer’s disease, optimizing health span and reducing stigma associated with aging. Rogalski directs the new University of Chicago Healthy Aging & Alzheimer’s Care Center.
Discover the science behind vibrant aging as we delve into the remarkable lives of older adults thriving in their 80’s, 90’s and beyond – the so-called SuperAgers. Gain insights into modifiable risk factors for dementia, tools for promoting healthy aging, the importance of community engaged research and strategies to keep your mind sharp as you age. There are some serious scientific consequences to studying these individuals and some hopes that we have for studying them. For example, when we think about dementia and Alzheimer's disease, one way to study it is to look at what's going wrong with the brain and then try to fix or ameliorate or find a cure for what's going wrong. However, when we have a complex problem, sometimes it's really helpful to turn it on its head and look from a different vantage point or perspective. "Super Aging" offers that: A new set of hypotheses to investigate with more demographic, racial/ethnic data and sophisticated technology to precisely characterize SuperAgers and discover new insights. Learning Objectives: At the conclusion of this session, participants will be able to:- Distinguish among divergent trajectories cognitive aging: SuperAging, average aging, pathologic aging.
- Explain at least two ways in which SuperAgers’ brains show resistance to common features associated with average aging.
- Describe at least two lifestyle features associated with SuperAgers.
- Explain at least two reasons why community engaged research methods are important.
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FRIDAY LUNCH
March 14, 2025
12:00 pm - 1:00 pm -
SESSION 5A — March 14th, 1:15 - 2:45pm — CHALLENGING INTERNALIZED AGEISM TO TELL OUR STORY OF AGING IN A NEW WAY — Speaker: ANDREW STEWARD, Ph.D., LCSW (CEH: 1.5H)
March 14, 2025
1:15 pm - 2:45 pm Andrew Steward is an Assistant Professor of Social Work at the University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee Helen Bader School of Social Welfare. Steward’s research explores gaps in understanding and responding to ageism through two primary aims: 1) to test programs and interventions that may reduce internalized ageism and enhance psychosocial health for older adults, and 2) to explore the intersectionality of ageism with other social justice issues. Currently, Steward is partnering with several community organizations to pilot a 10-session anti-ageism peer support program for adults 50+ years of age called Aging Together. This program aims to reduce internalized and relational ageism and improve self-efficacy, purpose in life, social connectedness and cognitive function among older adults. Steward received his MSW and PhD from the University of Denver Graduate School of Social Work. He is a Licensed Clinical Social Worker with practice experience in hospice care and developing healthy aging programs. He was the lead developer of an intergenerational, lifelong learning initiative recognized by the International Council on Active Aging as one of the five most innovative wellness programs for older adults in North America in 2015. Steward also has a BA in music and has worked as a Certified Music Practitioner, where he provided therapeutic flute music for clients in healthcare settings. From “antiaging” face creams to wisecracking birthday cards to “OK, boomer” memes, the message is clear: Being old is something to avoid. While aging is incredibly complex and nuanced, there is a tendency to frame aging as all positive or all negative. Steward will provide a brief history of this tendency in gerontological research (e.g., successful aging), healthcare models (the biomedical model), public life (media depictions or absence of older adults in media), etc. discussing how this tendency has contributed to shaping aging-related stereotypes. Ageist stereotypes are insidious; research shows that children as young as 4 years old internalized stereotypes about older people. Age stereotypes often go unchallenged, and some views about aging are presumed to be true without very much evidence. Research demonstrates how age stereotypes are internalized from an early age, with accumulating negative impacts on well-being across the life course. Thus, it is important to practice identifying and reframing myths or stereotypes about aging that often go unchallenged in our society. At the same time, there is a nuanced distinction between challenging age stereotypes and accepting the very real changes that can occur in the aging process. Thus, practicing acceptance and self-kindness are also key in responding to ageism. Efforts to reframe aging, counter the impact of ageist notions and create a support structure of older adults show notable promise and bear consideration. Learning Objectives: At the conclusion of this session, participants will be able to:- Define ageism, particularly internalized ageism.
- Practice acceptance of very real aging-related challenges.
- Challenge pervasive myths and stereotypes about aging.
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SESSION 5B — March 14th, 1:15 - 2:45pm — LOCATING OLD AGE — Speaker: PHILLIP STAFFORD, Ph.D. (CEH: 1.5H)
March 14, 2025
1:15 pm - 2:45 pm Philip Stafford received his BA from the University of Chicago and his Ph.D. from Indiana University. He is Adjunct Professor, Department of Anthropology, Faculty Affiliate at the Ostrom Workshop in Political Theory and Policy Analysis, and the retired Director of the Center on Aging and Community at Indiana University. As a senior consultant to the AdvantAge Initiative project of the Center for Home Care Policy and Research, he supports planning for age-friendly communities in over 40 U.S. cities and towns and participatory research and design projects for the development of the Lifetime Community Concept at the neighborhood level. He received the Walter S. Blackburn Award from the Indiana Chapter of the American Institute of Architects for contributions to the field by a nonarchitect and the Ageless America Award from Partners for Livable Communities. He is a member of the advisory board of the International Making Cities Livable Institute, past president of the Association for Anthropology and Gerontology and recent board member of the American Society on Aging and the Memory Bridge Foundation. His major publications include Gray Areas: Ethnographic Encounters with Nursing Home Culture (2003: SAR Press), Elderburbia: Aging with a Sense of Place in America (2009: Praeger) and The Global Age-Friendly Community Movement: A Critical Perspective (2018: Berghahn Press). In retirement, Stafford founded the Co-Design Commons in Bloomington, Indiana. Based on the belief that old people are experts on their own lives, the Co-Design Commons brings together older people and designers to help design with, not for, this population. Co-design works across several domains of daily life poorly served by products, technologies, services and built environments. In his talk, Stafford argues that aging is not simply about the body and time but, rather, about place and the meaning of relationships. He will draw upon the history and philosophy of science to help account for our current popular framing of old age and review many of the implications for this error in thinking that have an impact on our system of programs, interventions and policies around aging, while proposing changes that re-focus our attention to aging and place. Learning Objectives:At the conclusion of this session, participants will be able to:
- Understand the historical factors that led us to define old age as a medical problem.
- Examine the implications of the medicalization of aging for our health care system.
- Discuss a new approach to aging that situates the process within a less clinical and more community centered framework.
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SESSION 6 — March 14th, 3:15 - 4:45pm — LEARNING TO DISAGREE: BOLD PERSPECTIVES IN A WORLD OF CHANGE — Speaker: JOHN INAZU, Ph.D. (CEH: 1.5H)
March 15, 2025
3:15 pm - 4:45 pm John Inazu is the Sally D. Danforth Distinguished Professor of Law and Religion at Washington University in St. Louis. His work focuses on the First Amendment freedoms of speech, assembly, and religion, and related questions of legal and political theory. Inazu’s latest book is Learning to Disagree: The Surprising Path to Navigating Differences with Empathy and Respect (Zondervan, 2024). He is also the author of Liberty’s Refuge: The Forgotten Freedom of Assembly (Yale University Press, 2012) and Confident Pluralism: Surviving and Thriving Through Deep Difference (University of Chicago Press, 2016) and co-editor (with Tim Keller) of Uncommon Ground: Living Faithfully in a World of Difference (Thomas Nelson, 2020). Inazu is the founder of The Carver Project and the Legal Vocation Fellowship and a Senior Fellow at Interfaith America and the Trinity Forum. He holds a B.S.E. and J.D. from Duke University and a Ph.D. in political science from the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill. We are not particularly good at disagreement. Viewing our adversaries not only as wrong but increasingly as evil, we resist notions of forgiveness, and we distrust institutions that try to mediate our disagreements. In the closing presentation of the 2025 Symposium, Inazu confronts what may be the most profound challenge we face as older people: the question of whether we can live truly with each other, not merely alongside each other, in situations where we genuinely feel most alienated from, and even threatened by, one another’s beliefs or behaviors. With often painful honesty, this conversation will probe the places where our differences are most tender - race, politics, religion, sexuality. Inazu ultimately seeks for more from us than just resigned indifference, insisting on shared commitments that honor and protect difference and by embodying tolerance, humility, and patience in our speech, our collective action (protests, strikes and boycotts), and our relationships across differences. This means it will make almost all of us uncomfortable at different points, and its admirable ambition means that it takes that discomfort as an inevitable, if unintended, consequence of its aims. Today's presentation brings older and younger participants together in a no-holds-barred conversation with Inazu. Learning Objectives: At the conclusion of this session, participants will be able to:- Acknowledge the conditions that manifest as personal anxiety, social conflict, community distress and political crisis.
- Examine the time-honored biases which shape our behaviors in an altered environment.
- Understand how we can and must live together in spite of deep and sometimes irresolvable differences.
- Apply practical notions about how to engage with people across deep divides.